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College, Crazy, and Jeb Bush: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I read it.  An alleged Constitutional scholar completely dismisses an entire amendment.   Except he doesn’t. He explicitly explained the argument that one would use against that amendment. And again he uses a Republican example too (Jeb Bush/George Bush) so he absolutely did not say “it would be OK if liberals did it“. He didn’t say would be “OK” with him at all, he was just laying out the argument. Y’all need to learn that theoretical arguments are not endorsements. The law is full of crazy loopholes that people literally spend years arguing back-and-forth as a career. You don’t get to just throw up your hands and say “that sounds stupid so it’s not real”. It’s insanely stupid, and it disturbs me that anyone would even consider this idea.  Crazy Uncle Joe would be an absolutely horrible President, even more of a puppet than Obama.   Friend, buddy, pal, chum. I am not even sort of saying that this would be a good idea and I don’t even think it’s on the table. Biden has shown no interest in running, much less appointing Obama as VP. He would be an idiot to do that because it almost certainly wouldn’t make it through the electoral college. This is just a thought exercise, nothing more.
College, Crazy, and Jeb Bush: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I read it.  An alleged Constitutional scholar completely dismisses an entire amendment.   Except he doesn’t. He explicitly explained the argument that one would use against that amendment. And again he uses a Republican example too (Jeb Bush/George Bush) so he absolutely did not say “it would be OK if liberals did it“. He didn’t say would be “OK” with him at all, he was just laying out the argument. Y’all need to learn that theoretical arguments are not endorsements. The law is full of crazy loopholes that people literally spend years arguing back-and-forth as a career. You don’t get to just throw up your hands and say “that sounds stupid so it’s not real”. It’s insanely stupid, and it disturbs me that anyone would even consider this idea.  Crazy Uncle Joe would be an absolutely horrible President, even more of a puppet than Obama.   Friend, buddy, pal, chum. I am not even sort of saying that this would be a good idea and I don’t even think it’s on the table. Biden has shown no interest in running, much less appointing Obama as VP. He would be an idiot to do that because it almost certainly wouldn’t make it through the electoral college. This is just a thought exercise, nothing more.

coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The...

Arguing, College, and Joe Biden: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 urben911: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I have
 opinions
 on Dorf. Obama is ineligible for the office. Saying ‘well he’s only ineligible to be ELECTED’ is stupid shenanigans. Like saying you’re allowed to be in a house because while they said ‘don’t come in this door’ you came in through the WINDOW. You can’t back door a non citizen into the presidency this way, I see no reason why this would be different for term limitations. You can call it “stupid shenanigans” all you want but this is how the law works. Every phrase, comma, and word choice matters. If there is even a window there is a lawyer who will argue that point. I’m certainly not in support of this idea, I’m just saying you can’t hand wave a legal argument because you’re pretty sure it meant something that’s not explicitly stated. The fact is the amendment could have explicitly said “no former president can ever hold the office more than twice under any circumstances”, but it doesn’t say that, it says they cannot be elected. There is a difference. I’m pretty sure from the wording of the amendment it would be perfectly legal. If they ran as biden/Obama that would be legal because Obama isn’t being elected as president. If something happened to Biden where the vp would have to take over then you could have Obama in the white house legally. At least that’s what I get from the wording of the constitution. THANK YOU.It really isn’t that complicated.
Arguing, College, and Joe Biden: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 urben911: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I have
 opinions
 on Dorf. Obama is ineligible for the office. Saying ‘well he’s only ineligible to be ELECTED’ is stupid shenanigans. Like saying you’re allowed to be in a house because while they said ‘don’t come in this door’ you came in through the WINDOW. You can’t back door a non citizen into the presidency this way, I see no reason why this would be different for term limitations. You can call it “stupid shenanigans” all you want but this is how the law works. Every phrase, comma, and word choice matters. If there is even a window there is a lawyer who will argue that point. I’m certainly not in support of this idea, I’m just saying you can’t hand wave a legal argument because you’re pretty sure it meant something that’s not explicitly stated. The fact is the amendment could have explicitly said “no former president can ever hold the office more than twice under any circumstances”, but it doesn’t say that, it says they cannot be elected. There is a difference. I’m pretty sure from the wording of the amendment it would be perfectly legal. If they ran as biden/Obama that would be legal because Obama isn’t being elected as president. If something happened to Biden where the vp would have to take over then you could have Obama in the white house legally. At least that’s what I get from the wording of the constitution. THANK YOU.It really isn’t that complicated.

urben911: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of ...

Arguing, College, and Joe Biden: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 hst3000: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I have
 opinions
 on Dorf. Obama is ineligible for the office. Saying ‘well he’s only ineligible to be ELECTED’ is stupid shenanigans. Like saying you’re allowed to be in a house because while they said ‘don’t come in this door’ you came in through the WINDOW. You can’t back door a non citizen into the presidency this way, I see no reason why this would be different for term limitations. You can call it “stupid shenanigans” all you want but this is how the law works. Every phrase, comma, and word choice matters. If there is even a window there is a lawyer who will argue that point. I’m certainly not in support of this idea, I’m just saying you can’t hand wave a legal argument because you’re pretty sure it meant something that’s not explicitly stated. The fact is the amendment could have explicitly said “no former president can ever hold the office more than twice under any circumstances”, but it doesn’t say that, it says they cannot be elected. There is a difference. Being elected is the default way to become president. I don’t doubt someone would argue it, but it’s a STUPID ARGUMENT. The rest of the argument in that article is ‘well there’s no law saying the parties can’t run a dog for election’ type of crap. “Being elected is the default way to become president” Yes but it’s not the only way. Teddy Roosevelt not initially get elected to the office, he became president when McKinley died. Whether or not it’s a stupid argument is beside the point. We’re talking about theoretical legality.
Arguing, College, and Joe Biden: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 hst3000: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I have
 opinions
 on Dorf. Obama is ineligible for the office. Saying ‘well he’s only ineligible to be ELECTED’ is stupid shenanigans. Like saying you’re allowed to be in a house because while they said ‘don’t come in this door’ you came in through the WINDOW. You can’t back door a non citizen into the presidency this way, I see no reason why this would be different for term limitations. You can call it “stupid shenanigans” all you want but this is how the law works. Every phrase, comma, and word choice matters. If there is even a window there is a lawyer who will argue that point. I’m certainly not in support of this idea, I’m just saying you can’t hand wave a legal argument because you’re pretty sure it meant something that’s not explicitly stated. The fact is the amendment could have explicitly said “no former president can ever hold the office more than twice under any circumstances”, but it doesn’t say that, it says they cannot be elected. There is a difference. Being elected is the default way to become president. I don’t doubt someone would argue it, but it’s a STUPID ARGUMENT. The rest of the argument in that article is ‘well there’s no law saying the parties can’t run a dog for election’ type of crap. “Being elected is the default way to become president” Yes but it’s not the only way. Teddy Roosevelt not initially get elected to the office, he became president when McKinley died. Whether or not it’s a stupid argument is beside the point. We’re talking about theoretical legality.

hst3000: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of...

College, Crazy, and Jeb Bush: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I read it.  An alleged Constitutional scholar completely dismisses an entire amendment.   Except he doesn’t. He explicitly explained the argument that one would use against that amendment. And again he uses a Republican example too (Jeb Bush/George Bush) so he absolutely did not say “it would be OK if liberals did it“. He didn’t say would be “OK” with him at all, he was just laying out the argument. Y’all need to learn that theoretical arguments are not endorsements. The law is full of crazy loopholes that people literally spend years arguing back-and-forth as a career. You don’t get to just throw up your hands and say “that sounds stupid so it’s not real”.
College, Crazy, and Jeb Bush: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I read it.  An alleged Constitutional scholar completely dismisses an entire amendment.   Except he doesn’t. He explicitly explained the argument that one would use against that amendment. And again he uses a Republican example too (Jeb Bush/George Bush) so he absolutely did not say “it would be OK if liberals did it“. He didn’t say would be “OK” with him at all, he was just laying out the argument. Y’all need to learn that theoretical arguments are not endorsements. The law is full of crazy loopholes that people literally spend years arguing back-and-forth as a career. You don’t get to just throw up your hands and say “that sounds stupid so it’s not real”.

coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likel...

Arguing, College, and Joe Biden: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 hst3000: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I have
 opinions
 on Dorf. Obama is ineligible for the office. Saying ‘well he’s only ineligible to be ELECTED’ is stupid shenanigans. Like saying you’re allowed to be in a house because while they said don’t come in this door’ you came in through the WINDOW. You can’t back door a non citizen into the presidency this way, I see no reason why this would be different for term limitations. You can call it “stupid shenanigans” all you want but this is how the law works. Every phrase, comma, and word choice matters. If there is even a window there is a lawyer who will argue that point. I’m certainly not in support of this idea, I’m just saying you can’t hand wave a legal argument because you’re pretty sure it meant something that’s not explicitly stated. The fact is the amendment could have explicitly said “no former president can ever hold the office more than twice under any circumstances”, but it doesn’t say that, it says they cannot be elected. There is a difference.
Arguing, College, and Joe Biden: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 hst3000: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 All the WaPo article means is that “It’s okay when Democrats violate the Constitution!” It literally does not say that at all and I question if you even read it. I have
 opinions
 on Dorf. Obama is ineligible for the office. Saying ‘well he’s only ineligible to be ELECTED’ is stupid shenanigans. Like saying you’re allowed to be in a house because while they said don’t come in this door’ you came in through the WINDOW. You can’t back door a non citizen into the presidency this way, I see no reason why this would be different for term limitations. You can call it “stupid shenanigans” all you want but this is how the law works. Every phrase, comma, and word choice matters. If there is even a window there is a lawyer who will argue that point. I’m certainly not in support of this idea, I’m just saying you can’t hand wave a legal argument because you’re pretty sure it meant something that’s not explicitly stated. The fact is the amendment could have explicitly said “no former president can ever hold the office more than twice under any circumstances”, but it doesn’t say that, it says they cannot be elected. There is a difference.

hst3000: libertarirynn: coolmanfromthepast: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questi...

Arguing, College, and Joe Biden: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 terrapinfox: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 i read that article and it still doesn’t seem possible given “No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”and at first i thought this’d be a good way to secure trump his second term, but
 judging by the sheer amount of lunatics in usa atm, a kinda technicality shadow president could have a chance, which would be terrifying and dangerous tbh. The article lose things out pretty clearly, and I summarize it in the OP: the exact wording of the 22nd amendment says that a person cannot be ELECTED more than twice to the office of president. It does not prohibit someone becoming president through a line of succession, Having not been directly elected to the office. A former president would not be constitutionally ineligible based on those parameters.It’s a loophole in the wording but the law is literally build on loopholes. A constitutional lawyer could and would argue this if they tried to make it happen. Now this article also points out they almost certainly wouldn’t try to make it happen because of the backlash and lack of likelihood that the electoral college would approve such a ticket. But it is theoretically possible.
Arguing, College, and Joe Biden: let's get it popping. Biden/Obama 2020 yeah yeah i know @WeCloutChase The 22nd amendment would allow Joe Biden to run as President and Barrack Obama as his VP. Just saying. Show this thread 600 terrapinfox: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but it miiiight get through depending on how strictly they interpret the 22nd amendment, since Obama would not technically be being “elected” to the office of president, which is the explicit provisional language in the amendment (Not that somebody couldn’t theoretically hold the office more than twice, but that they could not be elected to it twice). All that said it would be a shitshow but mighty entertaining. 12th amendment, guys: No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States. Obama is an unconstitutional selection. Not exactly: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/06/could-joe-biden-pick-barack-obama-as-his-running-mate-yes-but/?utm_term=.dc9a5700ef57 i read that article and it still doesn’t seem possible given “No person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.”and at first i thought this’d be a good way to secure trump his second term, but
 judging by the sheer amount of lunatics in usa atm, a kinda technicality shadow president could have a chance, which would be terrifying and dangerous tbh. The article lose things out pretty clearly, and I summarize it in the OP: the exact wording of the 22nd amendment says that a person cannot be ELECTED more than twice to the office of president. It does not prohibit someone becoming president through a line of succession, Having not been directly elected to the office. A former president would not be constitutionally ineligible based on those parameters.It’s a loophole in the wording but the law is literally build on loopholes. A constitutional lawyer could and would argue this if they tried to make it happen. Now this article also points out they almost certainly wouldn’t try to make it happen because of the backlash and lack of likelihood that the electoral college would approve such a ticket. But it is theoretically possible.

terrapinfox: libertarirynn: hst3000: libertarirynn: The constitutionality of this would likely be questioned by the electoral college but...

Being Alone, Ass, and Assassination: HI... I'M I'M VERY GLAD FRANKLIN.. TO KNOW yOU I ) OPNTS <p><a href="https://atomicsalmon.tumblr.com/post/176535484178/brett-caton-atomicsalmon-brett-caton" class="tumblr_blog">atomicsalmon</a>:</p> <blockquote><p><a href="http://brett-caton.tumblr.com/post/176509323667/atomicsalmon-brett-caton-atomicsalmon" class="tumblr_blog">brett-caton</a>:</p> <blockquote><p><a href="https://atomicsalmon.tumblr.com/post/176489965878/brett-caton-atomicsalmon-brett-caton" class="tumblr_blog">atomicsalmon</a>:</p><blockquote> <p><a href="http://brett-caton.tumblr.com/post/176488525882/atomicsalmon-brett-caton-libertarirynn" class="tumblr_blog">brett-caton</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://atomicsalmon.tumblr.com/post/176487882003/brett-caton-libertarirynn-on-july-31-1968" class="tumblr_blog">atomicsalmon</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://brett-caton.tumblr.com/post/176468087807/libertarirynn-on-july-31-1968-a-young-black" class="tumblr_blog">brett-caton</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://libertarirynn.tumblr.com/post/176420298534/on-july-31-1968-a-young-black-man-was-reading" class="tumblr_blog">libertarirynn</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p>“On July 31, 1968, a young, black man was reading the newspaper when he saw something that he had never seen before. With tears in his eyes, he started running and screaming throughout the house, calling for his mom. He would show his mom, and, she would gasp, seeing something she thought she would never see in her lifetime. Throughout the nation, there were similar reactions.</p> <p>What they saw was Franklin Armstrong’s first appearance on the iconic comic strip “Peanuts.” Franklin would be 50 years old this year.</p> <p>Franklin was “born” after a school teacher, Harriet Glickman, had written a letter to creator Charles M. Schulz after Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was shot to death outside his Memphis hotel room. </p> <p>Glickman, who had kids of her own and having worked with kids, was especially aware of the power of comics among the young. “And my feeling at the time was that I realized that black kids and white kids never saw themselves [depicted] together in the classroom,” she would say. </p> <p>She would write, “Since the death of Martin Luther King, ‘I’ve been asking myself what I can do to help change those conditions in our society which led to the assassination and which contribute to the vast sea of misunderstanding, hate, fear and violence.‘”</p> <p>Glickman asked Schulz if he could consider adding a black character to his popular comic strip, which she hoped would bring the country together and show people of color that they are not excluded from American society. </p> <p>She had written to others as well, but the others feared it was too soon, that it may be costly to their careers, that the syndicate would drop them if they dared do something like that.</p> <p>Charles Schulz did not have to respond to her letter, he could have just completely ignored it, and everyone would have forgotten about it. But, Schulz did take the time to respond, saying he was intrigued with the idea, but wasn’t sure whether it would be right, coming from him, he didn’t want to make matters worse, he felt that it may sound condescending to people of color.</p> <p>Glickman did not give up, and continued communicating with Schulz, with Schulz surprisingly responding each time. She would even have black friends write to Schulz and explain to him what it would mean to them and gave him some suggestions on how to introduce such a character without offending anyone. This conversation would continue until one day, Schulz would tell Glickman to check her newspaper on July 31, 1968.</p> <p>On that date, the cartoon, as created by Schulz, shows Charlie Brown meeting a new character, named Franklin. Other than his color, Franklin was just an ordinary kid who befriends and helps Charlie Brown. Franklin also mentions that his father was “over at Vietnam.” At the end of the series, which lasted three strips, Charlie invites Franklin to spend the night one day so they can continue their friendship.</p> <p>There was no big announcement, there was no big deal, it was just a natural conversation between two kids, whose obvious differences did not matter to them. And, the fact that Franklin’s father was fighting for this country was also a very strong statement by Schulz.</p> <p>Although Schulz never made a big deal over the inclusion of Franklin, there were many fans, especially in the South, who were very upset by it and that made national news. One Southern editor even said, “I don’t mind you having a black character, but please don’t show them in school together.”</p> <p>It would eventually lead to a conversation between Schulz and the president of the comic’s distribution company, who was concerned about the introduction of Franklin and how it might affect Schulz’ popularity. Many newspapers during that time had threatened to cut the strip.</p> <p>Schulz’ response: “I remember telling Larry at the time about Franklin – he wanted me to change it, and we talked about it for a long while on the phone, and I finally sighed and said, “Well, Larry, let’s put it this way: Either you print it just the way I draw it or I quit. How’s that?”</p> <p>Eventually, Franklin became a regular character in the comic strips, and, despite complaints, Franklin would be shown sitting in front of Peppermint Patty at school and playing center field on her baseball team. </p> <p>More recently, Franklin is brought up on social media around Thanksgiving time, when the animated 1973 special “A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving” appears. Some people have blamed Schulz for showing Franklin sitting alone on the Thanksgiving table, while the other characters sit across him. But, Schulz did not have the same control over the animated cartoon on a television network that he did on his own comic strip in the newspapers.</p> <p>But, he did have control over his own comic strip, and, he courageously decided to make a statement because of one brave school teacher who decided to ask a simple question.</p> <p>Glickman would explain later that her parents were “concerned about others, and the values that they instilled in us about caring for and appreciating everyone of all colors and backgrounds — this is what we knew when we were growing up, that you cared about other people 
 And so, during the years, we were very aware of the issues of racism and civil rights in this country [when] black people had to sit at the back of the bus, black people couldn’t sit in the same seats in the restaurants that you could sit 
 Every day I would see, or read, about black children trying to get into school and seeing crowds of white people standing around spitting at them or yelling at them 
 and the beatings and the dogs and the hosings and the courage of so many people in that time.”</p> <p>Because of Glickman, because of Schulz, people around the world were introduced to a little boy named Franklin.” (Source: The Jon S. Randal Peace Page, Facebook)</p> </blockquote> <p>Of course, nowadays one of the characters would suddenly be black, another would be transexual, and all the girls would be quasi lesbians at least. :P</p> </blockquote> <p>Diversity isn’t bad, but using an outdated term for transgender people is. </p> <p>Please do NOT use transsexual. </p> </blockquote> <p>“ using an outdated term for transgender people is “<br/><br/>Who appointed you to the language police?<br/><br/>Trans <b>gender</b> doesn’t make sense, since gender is the psychological depiction of biological sex. A transsexual is someone whose brain doesn’t align with the body. They experience gender dysphoria, they don’t flip genders because it’s Thursday.<br/><br/>“ Diversity isn’t bad “<br/><br/>Bullshit. <i>Diversity </i>as it is used now is the opposite of what it used to <i>be</i>. Every story has to be the <b>same </b>because <i>diversity?</i> That’s some Animal Farm levels of crap. <br/><br/><a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrlzSqLSGj8GIOeT5jrQsJA/videos">https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrlzSqLSGj8GIOeT5jrQsJA/videos</a><br/><br/></p> </blockquote> <p>1. Trans people themselves would rather people use transgender, regardless of whether or not it makes sense.</p> <p>2. Kek, I never said every story has to be the same because of diversity, you’re just pulling shit out of your ass.</p> <p>Diversity isn’t bad. It’s not going to kill you if there’s a story featuring someone that is gay, trans, disabled, of color, or anything else outside of what people usually choose to depict.</p> <p>It’s not that hard a concept to understand. If you get heated over there being diversity then you need to check yourself and your beliefs.</p> <p>Forced diversity is understandable to dislike, but I wasn’t even talking about that in the first place. I said a general statement. </p> </blockquote> <p>“ Trans people themselves would rather people use transgender “<br/><br/>And your proof is.. your opinion. Dismissed as easily. I’ve known transsexuals all my life, they used the word, that is where i heard it, I don’t care that your little group of 0.0001% of the english speakers want to control how english is spoken, any more than I care how scientologists want it to be spoken.<br/><br/>Authoritarians try to control minds by controlling words. It’s very revealing to read books like 1984. SocJus fits in perfectly to that world.<br/><br/>“ I never said every story has to be the same because of diversity “<br/><br/>And I never said you did. God, strawmannery already? I said ‘diversity’ makes every story the same. You have to have the trans, you have to have the black person, the gay, blah blah blah. Art has to serve the needs of the ideology, not the audience, in the SocJus worldview.<br/><br/><br/></p><figure class="tmblr-full" data-orig-height="1078" data-orig-width="881"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/4d0465e9b6c0eee84fa8ff9bf3e14229/tumblr_inline_pcrreh11Tt1qj6ut1_540.jpg" data-orig-height="1078" data-orig-width="881"/></figure><p><a href="http://brettcaton.blogspot.com/2018/04/has-squirrel-girl-acquired-downs.html">Which results in
 that.</a><br/><br/>“ Diversity isn’t bad. “<br/><br/>By that same logic, having every story push communism or fascism isn’t bad. I disagree.<br/><br/>“ It’s not going to kill you “<br/><br/>Bullshit. But even by that same bar, neither is pushing stories that talk about pushing transsexuals into gas chambers. Is that really the standard of morality you ascribe to? Something is acceptable if it won’t kill<i> you?</i><br/><br/>“ It’s not that hard a concept to understand. “<br/><br/>I understand it perfectly, just as I understand the claims of all sorts of religions and ideologies.<br/><br/><br/></p><figure class="tmblr-full" data-orig-height="546" data-orig-width="728"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/ec0315ffbc32535d8b176e33bc0a4599/tumblr_inline_pcrrlfOi931qj6ut1_540.jpg" data-orig-height="546" data-orig-width="728"/></figure><p>There is something you - along with so many other fanatics do not comprehend. There are people who do not believe the same things you do, despite understanding your arguments. You cannot comprehend the idea that you may be
<br/><br/><br/></p><figure class="tmblr-full" data-orig-height="2592" data-orig-width="3888"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/287067269a75c067af2f0325ca17e5e7/tumblr_inline_pcrrnh1mG01qj6ut1_540.jpg" data-orig-height="2592" data-orig-width="3888"/></figure></blockquote> <p>Lol have you ever tried to chill? You should try it sometime, you look like you’re desperate for it. </p></blockquote> <p>Why in the hell did a post about Peanuts turn into this shitshow?</p>
Being Alone, Ass, and Assassination: HI... I'M I'M VERY GLAD FRANKLIN.. TO KNOW yOU I ) OPNTS <p><a href="https://atomicsalmon.tumblr.com/post/176535484178/brett-caton-atomicsalmon-brett-caton" class="tumblr_blog">atomicsalmon</a>:</p> <blockquote><p><a href="http://brett-caton.tumblr.com/post/176509323667/atomicsalmon-brett-caton-atomicsalmon" class="tumblr_blog">brett-caton</a>:</p> <blockquote><p><a href="https://atomicsalmon.tumblr.com/post/176489965878/brett-caton-atomicsalmon-brett-caton" class="tumblr_blog">atomicsalmon</a>:</p><blockquote> <p><a href="http://brett-caton.tumblr.com/post/176488525882/atomicsalmon-brett-caton-libertarirynn" class="tumblr_blog">brett-caton</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://atomicsalmon.tumblr.com/post/176487882003/brett-caton-libertarirynn-on-july-31-1968" class="tumblr_blog">atomicsalmon</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://brett-caton.tumblr.com/post/176468087807/libertarirynn-on-july-31-1968-a-young-black" class="tumblr_blog">brett-caton</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://libertarirynn.tumblr.com/post/176420298534/on-july-31-1968-a-young-black-man-was-reading" class="tumblr_blog">libertarirynn</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p>“On July 31, 1968, a young, black man was reading the newspaper when he saw something that he had never seen before. With tears in his eyes, he started running and screaming throughout the house, calling for his mom. He would show his mom, and, she would gasp, seeing something she thought she would never see in her lifetime. Throughout the nation, there were similar reactions.</p> <p>What they saw was Franklin Armstrong’s first appearance on the iconic comic strip “Peanuts.” Franklin would be 50 years old this year.</p> <p>Franklin was “born” after a school teacher, Harriet Glickman, had written a letter to creator Charles M. Schulz after Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was shot to death outside his Memphis hotel room. </p> <p>Glickman, who had kids of her own and having worked with kids, was especially aware of the power of comics among the young. “And my feeling at the time was that I realized that black kids and white kids never saw themselves [depicted] together in the classroom,” she would say. </p> <p>She would write, “Since the death of Martin Luther King, ‘I’ve been asking myself what I can do to help change those conditions in our society which led to the assassination and which contribute to the vast sea of misunderstanding, hate, fear and violence.‘”</p> <p>Glickman asked Schulz if he could consider adding a black character to his popular comic strip, which she hoped would bring the country together and show people of color that they are not excluded from American society. </p> <p>She had written to others as well, but the others feared it was too soon, that it may be costly to their careers, that the syndicate would drop them if they dared do something like that.</p> <p>Charles Schulz did not have to respond to her letter, he could have just completely ignored it, and everyone would have forgotten about it. But, Schulz did take the time to respond, saying he was intrigued with the idea, but wasn’t sure whether it would be right, coming from him, he didn’t want to make matters worse, he felt that it may sound condescending to people of color.</p> <p>Glickman did not give up, and continued communicating with Schulz, with Schulz surprisingly responding each time. She would even have black friends write to Schulz and explain to him what it would mean to them and gave him some suggestions on how to introduce such a character without offending anyone. This conversation would continue until one day, Schulz would tell Glickman to check her newspaper on July 31, 1968.</p> <p>On that date, the cartoon, as created by Schulz, shows Charlie Brown meeting a new character, named Franklin. Other than his color, Franklin was just an ordinary kid who befriends and helps Charlie Brown. Franklin also mentions that his father was “over at Vietnam.” At the end of the series, which lasted three strips, Charlie invites Franklin to spend the night one day so they can continue their friendship.</p> <p>There was no big announcement, there was no big deal, it was just a natural conversation between two kids, whose obvious differences did not matter to them. And, the fact that Franklin’s father was fighting for this country was also a very strong statement by Schulz.</p> <p>Although Schulz never made a big deal over the inclusion of Franklin, there were many fans, especially in the South, who were very upset by it and that made national news. One Southern editor even said, “I don’t mind you having a black character, but please don’t show them in school together.”</p> <p>It would eventually lead to a conversation between Schulz and the president of the comic’s distribution company, who was concerned about the introduction of Franklin and how it might affect Schulz’ popularity. Many newspapers during that time had threatened to cut the strip.</p> <p>Schulz’ response: “I remember telling Larry at the time about Franklin – he wanted me to change it, and we talked about it for a long while on the phone, and I finally sighed and said, “Well, Larry, let’s put it this way: Either you print it just the way I draw it or I quit. How’s that?”</p> <p>Eventually, Franklin became a regular character in the comic strips, and, despite complaints, Franklin would be shown sitting in front of Peppermint Patty at school and playing center field on her baseball team. </p> <p>More recently, Franklin is brought up on social media around Thanksgiving time, when the animated 1973 special “A Charlie Brown Thanksgiving” appears. Some people have blamed Schulz for showing Franklin sitting alone on the Thanksgiving table, while the other characters sit across him. But, Schulz did not have the same control over the animated cartoon on a television network that he did on his own comic strip in the newspapers.</p> <p>But, he did have control over his own comic strip, and, he courageously decided to make a statement because of one brave school teacher who decided to ask a simple question.</p> <p>Glickman would explain later that her parents were “concerned about others, and the values that they instilled in us about caring for and appreciating everyone of all colors and backgrounds — this is what we knew when we were growing up, that you cared about other people 
 And so, during the years, we were very aware of the issues of racism and civil rights in this country [when] black people had to sit at the back of the bus, black people couldn’t sit in the same seats in the restaurants that you could sit 
 Every day I would see, or read, about black children trying to get into school and seeing crowds of white people standing around spitting at them or yelling at them 
 and the beatings and the dogs and the hosings and the courage of so many people in that time.”</p> <p>Because of Glickman, because of Schulz, people around the world were introduced to a little boy named Franklin.” (Source: The Jon S. Randal Peace Page, Facebook)</p> </blockquote> <p>Of course, nowadays one of the characters would suddenly be black, another would be transexual, and all the girls would be quasi lesbians at least. :P</p> </blockquote> <p>Diversity isn’t bad, but using an outdated term for transgender people is. </p> <p>Please do NOT use transsexual. </p> </blockquote> <p>“ using an outdated term for transgender people is “<br/><br/>Who appointed you to the language police?<br/><br/>Trans <b>gender</b> doesn’t make sense, since gender is the psychological depiction of biological sex. A transsexual is someone whose brain doesn’t align with the body. They experience gender dysphoria, they don’t flip genders because it’s Thursday.<br/><br/>“ Diversity isn’t bad “<br/><br/>Bullshit. <i>Diversity </i>as it is used now is the opposite of what it used to <i>be</i>. Every story has to be the <b>same </b>because <i>diversity?</i> That’s some Animal Farm levels of crap. <br/><br/><a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrlzSqLSGj8GIOeT5jrQsJA/videos">https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrlzSqLSGj8GIOeT5jrQsJA/videos</a><br/><br/></p> </blockquote> <p>1. Trans people themselves would rather people use transgender, regardless of whether or not it makes sense.</p> <p>2. Kek, I never said every story has to be the same because of diversity, you’re just pulling shit out of your ass.</p> <p>Diversity isn’t bad. It’s not going to kill you if there’s a story featuring someone that is gay, trans, disabled, of color, or anything else outside of what people usually choose to depict.</p> <p>It’s not that hard a concept to understand. If you get heated over there being diversity then you need to check yourself and your beliefs.</p> <p>Forced diversity is understandable to dislike, but I wasn’t even talking about that in the first place. I said a general statement. </p> </blockquote> <p>“ Trans people themselves would rather people use transgender “<br/><br/>And your proof is.. your opinion. Dismissed as easily. I’ve known transsexuals all my life, they used the word, that is where i heard it, I don’t care that your little group of 0.0001% of the english speakers want to control how english is spoken, any more than I care how scientologists want it to be spoken.<br/><br/>Authoritarians try to control minds by controlling words. It’s very revealing to read books like 1984. SocJus fits in perfectly to that world.<br/><br/>“ I never said every story has to be the same because of diversity “<br/><br/>And I never said you did. God, strawmannery already? I said ‘diversity’ makes every story the same. You have to have the trans, you have to have the black person, the gay, blah blah blah. Art has to serve the needs of the ideology, not the audience, in the SocJus worldview.<br/><br/><br/></p><figure class="tmblr-full" data-orig-height="1078" data-orig-width="881"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/4d0465e9b6c0eee84fa8ff9bf3e14229/tumblr_inline_pcrreh11Tt1qj6ut1_540.jpg" data-orig-height="1078" data-orig-width="881"/></figure><p><a href="http://brettcaton.blogspot.com/2018/04/has-squirrel-girl-acquired-downs.html">Which results in
 that.</a><br/><br/>“ Diversity isn’t bad. “<br/><br/>By that same logic, having every story push communism or fascism isn’t bad. I disagree.<br/><br/>“ It’s not going to kill you “<br/><br/>Bullshit. But even by that same bar, neither is pushing stories that talk about pushing transsexuals into gas chambers. Is that really the standard of morality you ascribe to? Something is acceptable if it won’t kill<i> you?</i><br/><br/>“ It’s not that hard a concept to understand. “<br/><br/>I understand it perfectly, just as I understand the claims of all sorts of religions and ideologies.<br/><br/><br/></p><figure class="tmblr-full" data-orig-height="546" data-orig-width="728"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/ec0315ffbc32535d8b176e33bc0a4599/tumblr_inline_pcrrlfOi931qj6ut1_540.jpg" data-orig-height="546" data-orig-width="728"/></figure><p>There is something you - along with so many other fanatics do not comprehend. There are people who do not believe the same things you do, despite understanding your arguments. You cannot comprehend the idea that you may be
<br/><br/><br/></p><figure class="tmblr-full" data-orig-height="2592" data-orig-width="3888"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/287067269a75c067af2f0325ca17e5e7/tumblr_inline_pcrrnh1mG01qj6ut1_540.jpg" data-orig-height="2592" data-orig-width="3888"/></figure></blockquote> <p>Lol have you ever tried to chill? You should try it sometime, you look like you’re desperate for it. </p></blockquote> <p>Why in the hell did a post about Peanuts turn into this shitshow?</p>

<p><a href="https://atomicsalmon.tumblr.com/post/176535484178/brett-caton-atomicsalmon-brett-caton" class="tumblr_blog">atomicsalmon</a>:</p...

Arguing, Bad, and Beautiful: * Watch Dra Cuddy:Mother Gothel by Aveku-chan-Kataang Customization /Wallpaper/ People / Females @2011-2016 Aveku-chan-Kataang YES! C'MON! 8DDD <p><a href="http://siryouarebeingmocked.tumblr.com/post/176459494915/hst3000-rainbowloliofjustice" class="tumblr_blog">siryouarebeingmocked</a>:</p> <blockquote><p><a href="https://hst3000.tumblr.com/post/176070852987/rainbowloliofjustice-thedoctorofall" class="tumblr_blog">hst3000</a>:</p><blockquote> <p><a href="http://rainbowloliofjustice.tumblr.com/post/176051226472/thedoctorofall-ava-burton-writing" class="tumblr_blog">rainbowloliofjustice</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://thedoctorofall.tumblr.com/post/176049574122/ava-burton-writing-dragonenby" class="tumblr_blog">thedoctorofall</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://ava-burton-writing.tumblr.com/post/175913515322/dragonenby-writingwithcolor" class="tumblr_blog">ava-burton-writing</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://dragonenby.tumblr.com/post/175899318762/writingwithcolor-so-many-miles-to-go" class="tumblr_blog">dragonenby</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://writingwithcolor.tumblr.com/post/154992689002/so-many-miles-to-go-aworldinneedofmagic" class="tumblr_blog">writingwithcolor</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://so-many-miles-to-go.tumblr.com/post/154736881768/aworldinneedofmagic-the-independent-jew" class="tumblr_blog">so-many-miles-to-go</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://aworldinneedofmagic.tumblr.com/post/154715496153/the-independent-jew-so-many-miles-to-go" class="tumblr_blog">aworldinneedofmagic</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://the-independent-jew.tumblr.com/post/154343314825/smol-mother-rose-so-many-miles-to-go-yeah" class="tumblr_blog">the-independent-jew</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://so-many-miles-to-go.tumblr.com/post/154339137228/smol-mother-rose-so-many-miles-to-go-yeah" class="tumblr_blog">so-many-miles-to-go</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://smol-mother-rose.tumblr.com/post/154322589416/so-many-miles-to-go-yeah-theres-a-reason-for" class="tumblr_blog">smol-mother-rose</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://so-many-miles-to-go.tumblr.com/post/154319305938/yeah-theres-a-reason-for-that-its-called" class="tumblr_blog">so-many-miles-to-go</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p>Yeah, there’s a reason for that.</p> <p>It’s called: <b>antisemitic caricature.</b></p> </blockquote> <p>I don’t understand what’s Jewish about mother gothel
 she has a typical Disney face doesn’t she? Is it the curly hair..? I mean her nose and everything else seem normal? </p> <p>I’m sorry, I’m just trying to figure it out, you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to.</p> </blockquote> <p>dark curly hair - long hooked nose - darker complexion than the blond blue eyed heroine 9and really the rest of the cast - portrayed as greedy and evil.</p> <p>Lisa Edelstein is Jewish.  As are Idina Menzel and Amy Winehouse, both of whom I have seen compared in looks to Gothel.  Gothel’s design is a pretty clear caricature of ethnically Jewish women.  </p> <hr><p>This is a pretty good contrast between Rapunzel and Gothel.  <b><i>Rapunzel</i></b> has the “typical Disney face”:</p> <figure data-orig-width="1876" data-orig-height="1080" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/c6a02d31e5325ce3897ea40bca1db98c/tumblr_inline_oi1alyTZwN1u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="1876" data-orig-height="1080"/></figure><p>Here’s a more close up look at her features.</p> <figure data-orig-width="736" data-orig-height="414" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/81263a61b9b531b9a037bb3c2474d87d/tumblr_inline_oi1amcSI571u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="736" data-orig-height="414"/></figure><p>The hooked nose becomes even more pronounced as she becomes “eviler.”</p> <figure data-orig-width="640" data-orig-height="531" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/2cab6154654958a036ca5787f037fb2a/tumblr_inline_oi1ampHH5I1u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="640" data-orig-height="531"/></figure><hr><p>If you wanted to claim that there was noting out of the ordinary for Disney animation when it came to Gothel’s features, you would have to find at least one Disney princess or heroine with similar characteristics (long hooked nose and dark curly hair, etc).</p> <p>But here is what we have is -</p> <p><b>small noses that turn up at the end:</b></p> <figure data-orig-width="626" data-orig-height="313" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/795ee2dbccf93c8be84f2e494375d885/tumblr_inline_oi1an5YIKL1u3hfbm_540.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="626" data-orig-height="313"/></figure><p><b>wide, flatter noses</b> (though cheers to Disney for not putting button noses on their characters of color, although Esmerelda’s clothing design deserves another essay on Rromani stereotypes and there are some major issues with Pocahontas as well)</p> <figure data-orig-width="621" data-orig-height="310" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/cf1bb1115b150fc66fe3a135c2b1f7ae/tumblr_inline_oi1anhfdcO1u3hfbm_540.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="621" data-orig-height="310"/></figure><p>And then a few <b>misc noses</b> (again, props for Jasmine’s nose not being a button):</p> <figure data-orig-width="466" data-orig-height="155" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/4c972fc2df9f1f9fd3025d72babafcef/tumblr_inline_oi1anq7O7d1u3hfbm_540.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="466" data-orig-height="155"/></figure><hr><p>Apart from just the design of Gothel, there’s also the whole: <b>“obviously ‘other’ (read Jewish) woman kidnaps the pretty blonde (read: gentile) kid to use her for ritualistic/magical purposes”</b></p> <p>Like that right there <b><i>on top of</i> </b>the aesthetic Jewish-coding is what pushed the antisemitic caricature over the top for me.  It harkens back to antisemitic blood libel that claimed that Jews stole gentile children for all manner of nefarious reasons. Even when Gothel is in “mother” role to Rapunzel, she’s is shown as nagging and passive aggressive, both antisemitic stereotypes of Jewish women.</p> <p><b>There is no one thing that makes her an antisemitic caricature, but the design, plus the storyline she plays out, plus her characterization cement the overall character as antisemitic.  </b></p> <p>Jew-coding a villain is not in itself always antisemitic when there are also Jewish coded <b>heroes</b>. Rapunzel does not have that.</p> <p>Having a villain steal a baby for magical/ritualistic reasons is not always antisemitic as long as the villain is not Jew-coded.  Rapunzel fails this as well.</p> <p>Having a nagging and passive aggressive mother character is not antisemitic provided that she is not, again, coded as Jewish.  Rapunzel fails once again.</p> <p>Hope this helps.</p> <hr><p><b>EDIT: </b><a class="tumblelog" href="https://tmblr.co/mjHVWLfz9CujkJO8PWDNbUA">@ariminak</a> pointed out that some of my wording made it sound like Gothel’s features <i>only</i> stereotypically caricatured Ashkenazi women when in fact that is not the case.  I changed the language to remove that phrasing and make it clear that any ethnically Jewish women can be affected by this type of aesthetic trope. If you reblogged the old version, could you please delete it and reblog this one instead.</p> </blockquote> <p>Spread this version so people recognize that this stuff harms all Jewish women. <br/></p> </blockquote> <p>omfg can y’all chill the fuck out, any race can be portrayed as hero or villain, it’s a fucking kids movie not a political statement</p> </blockquote> <p>So I’m guessing you’re white and a gentile. As such, you’ve more than likely grown up looking at tv and movies and fairytales and seeing your face in those of the heroes.</p> <p>Jewish people don’t get that.  When we are portrayed in live action, our characters are more often than not whitewashed and in other media, our features are used and caricaturized to create “evil looking” villains.</p> <p>You don’t see it because you’ve been ingrained with the idea that “ethnic” features are just “how you make a character look evil.”  You don’t look at Gothel and see your mother.  You don’t see yourself and your people.  You don’t see decades of propaganda aimed at fostering hate against you and ultimately seeking to destroy you.  </p> <p>But seeing how<a href="http://aworldinneedofmagic.tumblr.com/post/148709289078/drwhothefuckyouthinkyoutalkinto-gelopanda"> you also seem to think that saying you’re not attracted to <i>an entire race</i> of people ISN’T racist</a>, you really don’t get any say on any of this.</p> <p>So really, you need to chill the fuck out and stop telling marginalized people to stop talking about the tools of our own marginalization.</p> <p><b>Let’s play a game I like to call: <i>Movie Villain or Antisemitic Propaganda:</i></b></p> <figure data-orig-width="726" data-orig-height="446" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/ef40a021948f154c0b106784323660aa/tumblr_inline_oii52q367I1u3hfbm_540.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="726" data-orig-height="446"/></figure><p>Many “evil witch” tropes were built on European antisemitic stereotypes, not just in appearance but in the storylines they play out as well. Greediness, stealing children, killing children, hunger for power, etc.  <b>Every time a movie villain design uses stereotyped Jewish features to communicate “evilness” to an audience, they perpetuate the marginalization of the people they are using. </b></p> <p>One big issue I have is that Gothel’s didn’t start out as the antisemitic caricature that made it to screen.  Much of the early concept art has a more dark romanticism feel.  </p> <figure data-orig-width="750" data-orig-height="453" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/6a26a0b8632d40346b1b4541b6829f02/tumblr_inline_oii6kjyfLA1u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="750" data-orig-height="453"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="750" data-orig-height="453" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/ad784bf14cf3600fc783cb3f6b9f0c70/tumblr_inline_oii6kjtoI61u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="750" data-orig-height="453"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="1100" data-orig-height="741" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/8163c91a59863a27fef98dcb16bd8782/tumblr_inline_oii6kk5zKZ1u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="1100" data-orig-height="741"/></figure><p>They changed the original design. Presumably to make Gothel more “other” from the good characters in the movie. <b> At some point, a decision was made that dark curly hair and a hooked nose wound better convey their villain.</b></p> <p>It really doesn’t matter if any of this was intentional, I’d actually bet that it wasn’t.  However, antisemitic tropes are so engrained in our societies that people like you, even when confronted with a step by step break down of what it is, feel comfortable thinking that there’s nothing wrong with it and mocking those calling it out as if we are overreacting.</p> <p>You seem to have completely ignored the majority of my post.  It is the character design, plus the characterization, plus the story line that mirrors blood libel that makes Gothel an antisemitic character. <b> It’s not just about someone of a certain race or ethnicity being a villain.  It’s about how stereotypes of a certain ethnic group are understood as “villainous” due to villains being repeatedly coded as Jewish over decades of film and tv.</b></p> <p>And contrary to your naive belief, all media is political to some extent. Every time a historically present minority is not included in film (ex: lily-white Harlem in Fantastical Beasts) or when a minority character is whitewashed, or when the “ethnic” features of a minority are used almost universally to portray bad guys, it is a political and social issue.  <b>When you never see yourselves as the people who play the hero or even see your people existing in a portrayal of a place where they should be, it is not benign.</b></p> </blockquote> <p>Reblogging again for these additions.</p> </blockquote> <p>I’m not Jewish, but I can imagine seeing yourself villanized again and again must wear on you so hard (like queer coded villains do on me). The stereotypes are so insidious, I didn’t even realize she was Jewish coded until I saw this post for the first time, and since then I’ve been able to pick up on more anti-semitic media.</p> <p>Stay cognizant! </p> </blockquote> <p>This is a writing blog so fellow writers! Please take a good look at your villains— even if they’re not Jewish, it can be antisemitic. Thanks. - A Jewâ„ąïž</p> </blockquote> <p>I have a feeling this is all baseless, and groundless. If you’re assuming a character has to be a negative Jewish stereotype because you stereotype those features as bein Jewish. The one with the issue might be you</p> </blockquote> <p>Mother Gothel has a similar facial structure as Cruella De Vil. Pointy cheekbones and chin, etc. </p> <figure data-orig-width="1600" data-orig-height="921" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/2ca38ab88da550b0df2c068dd610b59e/tumblr_inline_pc3u94DPjC1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="1600" data-orig-height="921"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="1003" data-orig-height="1458" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/20fba8157c93162a45ad83687045c4f4/tumblr_inline_pc3u9lFuTT1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="1003" data-orig-height="1458"/></figure><p>She isn’t any shade specifically darker than any of the other characters. They deliberately chose pictures where Mother Gothel is either in the darkened tower, or it is night time. </p> <p>Also, they only compared Mother Gothel to other Disney protags rather than other Disney villains or even Disney characters who are older. Disney typically uses very angular features to convey villains. </p> <figure data-orig-width="720" data-orig-height="480" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/a3257bff02583d7625f8fcc6d0450151/tumblr_inline_pc3uhqneNm1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="720" data-orig-height="480"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="1808" data-orig-height="1080" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/eff51a7ac3da026cbd5c35bd2306849c/tumblr_inline_pc3ui75cWO1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="1808" data-orig-height="1080"/></figure><figure class="tmblr-full" data-orig-height="1080" data-orig-width="1424"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/4ca1d9a7d7d1d683fd24d2c7f6246df5/tumblr_inline_pc3yjcMx4N1tx5uef_1280.png" data-orig-height="1080" data-orig-width="1424"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="300" data-orig-height="240" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/d881a63a0254cc8fbf8eaa8492f1fd52/tumblr_inline_pc3uji270c1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="300" data-orig-height="240"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="220" data-orig-height="322"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/2c053cbc17b4281c43e68dcf5d064a1c/tumblr_inline_pc3uuf11sU1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="220" data-orig-height="322"/></figure><p>Cruella has an upwards turned nose like most disney protags. It’s just sharper to go along with her other angular features.</p> <figure data-orig-width="500" data-orig-height="375" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/d000718627c5d7f706927ed24f5fdb53/tumblr_inline_pc3uvwOH951tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="500" data-orig-height="375"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="1440" data-orig-height="1080" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/2c1714d66f95acfb83d0fa651a638290/tumblr_inline_pc3uw9SJcB1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="1440" data-orig-height="1080"/></figure><p>Hell you can even compare her to Maleficent</p> <figure data-orig-width="400" data-orig-height="300" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/f71a5ad89503be687d6983421b7ee8f4/tumblr_inline_pc3uxnYbqh1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="400" data-orig-height="300"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="628" data-orig-height="418" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/194eadb0b5f82c48995786391f23de4d/tumblr_inline_pc3v17KSkb1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="628" data-orig-height="418"/></figure><p>Who you can see has no hooked or curved nose. In fact, her nose is more flat, similar to Jasmine.</p> <p>Also, many characters change from their concept art. Dr. Facilier went from this</p> <figure data-orig-width="371" data-orig-height="480" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/8a288ad68dcba5beb215b58355329452/tumblr_inline_pc3upqCyHv1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="371" data-orig-height="480"/></figure><p>to this </p> <figure data-orig-width="435" data-orig-height="800" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/8f165821d091d813a248966d7f907eaf/tumblr_inline_pc3uqz4ODa1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="435" data-orig-height="800"/></figure><p>The change from her hair being straight to curly has nothing to do with making her more “Jewish coded”. It’s the visual difference between her and Rapunzel, also, if anyone has forgotten
 <i>Rapunzel’s natural hair color is brown, not blonde.</i></p> <figure data-orig-width="504" data-orig-height="460" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/54cf4524541b7c090e850bbe5e8f216d/tumblr_inline_pc3v6dvQEX1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="504" data-orig-height="460"/></figure><p>If they wanted to make a character Jewish coded, then why just stop at curly hair and hooked nose? Many people, of various religions, races, and cultures have hooked noses and curly dark hair. Why not just go the full yard if you wanted to make a Jewish coded character that is anti-Semitic? Why not give her Jewish clothing and make her look ugly, gross, and dirty? </p> <figure data-orig-width="512" data-orig-height="636" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/9e1be5f1a6be51a1d48f412816d5eabd/tumblr_inline_pc3v9nvIuZ1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="512" data-orig-height="636"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="500" data-orig-height="717" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/ab077d76ddf1a292292d6bc02440a081/tumblr_inline_pc3va6j6LP1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="500" data-orig-height="717"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="375" data-orig-height="255" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/d59c6b2ad84f8509e38267470b500ffb/tumblr_inline_pc3vb30xWY1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="375" data-orig-height="255"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="407" data-orig-height="600" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/44e6d379c41c9d3b418ad21fbf60cb23/tumblr_inline_pc3vbmA1ES1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="407" data-orig-height="600"/></figure><p>They deliberately manipulated information and pointed out something and said, “See, Jewish stereotype.” even though you can see from mother Gothel’s profile picture, <i>her nose isn’t even hooked</i>. They’re picking out things that <i>could be</i> Jewish features or stereotypes and then saying that they are. </p> <p>“She’s greedy and evil” and so are pretty much all other Disney Villains. Ya know
 gotta be evil to be a villain. Dr. Faciler, Gaston, The Evil Queen, Maleficent, Jafar, Scar
 need I list more villains? Being evil and greedy =/= being jewish coded because evil and greedy are common traits of villains, <i>even within </i><br/></p> <p>“She has dark curly hair” so does Esmeralda and Moana. <br/></p> <p>“Hooked nose.” her nose isn’t even hooked. It’s flat, similar to Maleficent’s. Anytime someone’s head is bent or leaning forward, naturally, their nose will appear more hooked. that’s just anatomy. That happens to <i>everyone</i>. Hell, you can even see in the images <i>her nose isn’t hooked</i>. <br/></p> <p>If you can’t tell the difference between a Jewish caricature and Mother Gothel, then I think that’s a you problem. Stereotypes are not exclusive to one group. In fact, implying that is <i>even more racist and anti-semitic </i>than the character. </p> <p>Hell, in fact, prior to the 20th century, <i>red curly hair</i> was associated with Jewish people. So by that logic, Merida must be Jewish coded
 but because she is <i>good</i> and looks like a Disney protag, she <i>can’t</i> be Jewish coded because she doesn’t have enough “Jewish stereotypes”. </p> <p>The stereotype of Jewish people being greedy originates from when Jewish people were legally restricted to being usurers
 Which is where the stereotype comes from. However, even in Jewish religion and mythology, greed, as in any other religion, is often portrayed as a negative or bad trait. </p> <p>The irony is that they can only see Jewish stereotypes in <i>villainous characters</i> but can’t see any in the protagonists or heroes.</p> <figure data-orig-width="600" data-orig-height="400" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/5dab9038b1c45aa7d8afd2a14fd57fdd/tumblr_inline_pc3wmuk1ny1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="600" data-orig-height="400"/></figure><p>Esmeralda (from Frollo’s perspective) is associated with sin and temptation
 which is another Jewish stereotype (Beautiful Jewess / Belle Juive) and she has dark, curly hair (another Jewish stereotype). </p> <p>Merida has curly red hair, which was a Jewish stereotype before the 10th century. If we’re going this loosely based on stereotypes, you can even argue that Queen Eleanor is “Jewish-coded” because she is nagging, protective, and motherly. Ya know, the Jewish mother/wife stereotype. </p> <p>So you have two arguably Jewish-coded heroines and protags yet no one can see the Jewish stereotypes in them because they are <i>the good guys</i>. Or because they don’t have <i>certain</i> Jewish stereotypes.</p> <p>The thing is, stereotypes, are not all inherently bad, or rather, not all stereotypes are negative. Not all stereotypes originate from oppressors or people that are anti-semitic, racist, etc. Some stereotypes are often used as stock characters by people of a race or culture. Not every stereotype is exclusive to Jewish people either or even originates with anti-semitism. </p> <p>If you can <i>only</i> see yourself in villains then maybe it’s you rather than the creators or characters. You literally picked the bare minimum and made a mountain out of an ant hill.</p> </blockquote> <p>Maybe it’s me, but isn’t that shape of nose called the ROMAN nose? The propaganda ones seem a lot fatter and bulbous to me.</p> </blockquote> <p><i>&gt; They changed the original design. Presumably to make Gothel more “other” from the good characters in the movie. </i></p><p>Why, yes, the child kidnapper and abuser villain whose entire character motivation is based on <b>being different</b> is designed not to look like regular people, especially her “daughter”. Even her clothes are deliberately anachronistic.</p></blockquote> <p>This entire post has been quite a ride.</p>
Arguing, Bad, and Beautiful: * Watch Dra Cuddy:Mother Gothel by Aveku-chan-Kataang Customization /Wallpaper/ People / Females @2011-2016 Aveku-chan-Kataang YES! C'MON! 8DDD <p><a href="http://siryouarebeingmocked.tumblr.com/post/176459494915/hst3000-rainbowloliofjustice" class="tumblr_blog">siryouarebeingmocked</a>:</p> <blockquote><p><a href="https://hst3000.tumblr.com/post/176070852987/rainbowloliofjustice-thedoctorofall" class="tumblr_blog">hst3000</a>:</p><blockquote> <p><a href="http://rainbowloliofjustice.tumblr.com/post/176051226472/thedoctorofall-ava-burton-writing" class="tumblr_blog">rainbowloliofjustice</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://thedoctorofall.tumblr.com/post/176049574122/ava-burton-writing-dragonenby" class="tumblr_blog">thedoctorofall</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://ava-burton-writing.tumblr.com/post/175913515322/dragonenby-writingwithcolor" class="tumblr_blog">ava-burton-writing</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://dragonenby.tumblr.com/post/175899318762/writingwithcolor-so-many-miles-to-go" class="tumblr_blog">dragonenby</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://writingwithcolor.tumblr.com/post/154992689002/so-many-miles-to-go-aworldinneedofmagic" class="tumblr_blog">writingwithcolor</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://so-many-miles-to-go.tumblr.com/post/154736881768/aworldinneedofmagic-the-independent-jew" class="tumblr_blog">so-many-miles-to-go</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://aworldinneedofmagic.tumblr.com/post/154715496153/the-independent-jew-so-many-miles-to-go" class="tumblr_blog">aworldinneedofmagic</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://the-independent-jew.tumblr.com/post/154343314825/smol-mother-rose-so-many-miles-to-go-yeah" class="tumblr_blog">the-independent-jew</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://so-many-miles-to-go.tumblr.com/post/154339137228/smol-mother-rose-so-many-miles-to-go-yeah" class="tumblr_blog">so-many-miles-to-go</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="https://smol-mother-rose.tumblr.com/post/154322589416/so-many-miles-to-go-yeah-theres-a-reason-for" class="tumblr_blog">smol-mother-rose</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p><a href="http://so-many-miles-to-go.tumblr.com/post/154319305938/yeah-theres-a-reason-for-that-its-called" class="tumblr_blog">so-many-miles-to-go</a>:</p> <blockquote> <p>Yeah, there’s a reason for that.</p> <p>It’s called: <b>antisemitic caricature.</b></p> </blockquote> <p>I don’t understand what’s Jewish about mother gothel
 she has a typical Disney face doesn’t she? Is it the curly hair..? I mean her nose and everything else seem normal? </p> <p>I’m sorry, I’m just trying to figure it out, you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to.</p> </blockquote> <p>dark curly hair - long hooked nose - darker complexion than the blond blue eyed heroine 9and really the rest of the cast - portrayed as greedy and evil.</p> <p>Lisa Edelstein is Jewish.  As are Idina Menzel and Amy Winehouse, both of whom I have seen compared in looks to Gothel.  Gothel’s design is a pretty clear caricature of ethnically Jewish women.  </p> <hr><p>This is a pretty good contrast between Rapunzel and Gothel.  <b><i>Rapunzel</i></b> has the “typical Disney face”:</p> <figure data-orig-width="1876" data-orig-height="1080" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/c6a02d31e5325ce3897ea40bca1db98c/tumblr_inline_oi1alyTZwN1u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="1876" data-orig-height="1080"/></figure><p>Here’s a more close up look at her features.</p> <figure data-orig-width="736" data-orig-height="414" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/81263a61b9b531b9a037bb3c2474d87d/tumblr_inline_oi1amcSI571u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="736" data-orig-height="414"/></figure><p>The hooked nose becomes even more pronounced as she becomes “eviler.”</p> <figure data-orig-width="640" data-orig-height="531" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/2cab6154654958a036ca5787f037fb2a/tumblr_inline_oi1ampHH5I1u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="640" data-orig-height="531"/></figure><hr><p>If you wanted to claim that there was noting out of the ordinary for Disney animation when it came to Gothel’s features, you would have to find at least one Disney princess or heroine with similar characteristics (long hooked nose and dark curly hair, etc).</p> <p>But here is what we have is -</p> <p><b>small noses that turn up at the end:</b></p> <figure data-orig-width="626" data-orig-height="313" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/795ee2dbccf93c8be84f2e494375d885/tumblr_inline_oi1an5YIKL1u3hfbm_540.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="626" data-orig-height="313"/></figure><p><b>wide, flatter noses</b> (though cheers to Disney for not putting button noses on their characters of color, although Esmerelda’s clothing design deserves another essay on Rromani stereotypes and there are some major issues with Pocahontas as well)</p> <figure data-orig-width="621" data-orig-height="310" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/cf1bb1115b150fc66fe3a135c2b1f7ae/tumblr_inline_oi1anhfdcO1u3hfbm_540.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="621" data-orig-height="310"/></figure><p>And then a few <b>misc noses</b> (again, props for Jasmine’s nose not being a button):</p> <figure data-orig-width="466" data-orig-height="155" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/4c972fc2df9f1f9fd3025d72babafcef/tumblr_inline_oi1anq7O7d1u3hfbm_540.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="466" data-orig-height="155"/></figure><hr><p>Apart from just the design of Gothel, there’s also the whole: <b>“obviously ‘other’ (read Jewish) woman kidnaps the pretty blonde (read: gentile) kid to use her for ritualistic/magical purposes”</b></p> <p>Like that right there <b><i>on top of</i> </b>the aesthetic Jewish-coding is what pushed the antisemitic caricature over the top for me.  It harkens back to antisemitic blood libel that claimed that Jews stole gentile children for all manner of nefarious reasons. Even when Gothel is in “mother” role to Rapunzel, she’s is shown as nagging and passive aggressive, both antisemitic stereotypes of Jewish women.</p> <p><b>There is no one thing that makes her an antisemitic caricature, but the design, plus the storyline she plays out, plus her characterization cement the overall character as antisemitic.  </b></p> <p>Jew-coding a villain is not in itself always antisemitic when there are also Jewish coded <b>heroes</b>. Rapunzel does not have that.</p> <p>Having a villain steal a baby for magical/ritualistic reasons is not always antisemitic as long as the villain is not Jew-coded.  Rapunzel fails this as well.</p> <p>Having a nagging and passive aggressive mother character is not antisemitic provided that she is not, again, coded as Jewish.  Rapunzel fails once again.</p> <p>Hope this helps.</p> <hr><p><b>EDIT: </b><a class="tumblelog" href="https://tmblr.co/mjHVWLfz9CujkJO8PWDNbUA">@ariminak</a> pointed out that some of my wording made it sound like Gothel’s features <i>only</i> stereotypically caricatured Ashkenazi women when in fact that is not the case.  I changed the language to remove that phrasing and make it clear that any ethnically Jewish women can be affected by this type of aesthetic trope. If you reblogged the old version, could you please delete it and reblog this one instead.</p> </blockquote> <p>Spread this version so people recognize that this stuff harms all Jewish women. <br/></p> </blockquote> <p>omfg can y’all chill the fuck out, any race can be portrayed as hero or villain, it’s a fucking kids movie not a political statement</p> </blockquote> <p>So I’m guessing you’re white and a gentile. As such, you’ve more than likely grown up looking at tv and movies and fairytales and seeing your face in those of the heroes.</p> <p>Jewish people don’t get that.  When we are portrayed in live action, our characters are more often than not whitewashed and in other media, our features are used and caricaturized to create “evil looking” villains.</p> <p>You don’t see it because you’ve been ingrained with the idea that “ethnic” features are just “how you make a character look evil.”  You don’t look at Gothel and see your mother.  You don’t see yourself and your people.  You don’t see decades of propaganda aimed at fostering hate against you and ultimately seeking to destroy you.  </p> <p>But seeing how<a href="http://aworldinneedofmagic.tumblr.com/post/148709289078/drwhothefuckyouthinkyoutalkinto-gelopanda"> you also seem to think that saying you’re not attracted to <i>an entire race</i> of people ISN’T racist</a>, you really don’t get any say on any of this.</p> <p>So really, you need to chill the fuck out and stop telling marginalized people to stop talking about the tools of our own marginalization.</p> <p><b>Let’s play a game I like to call: <i>Movie Villain or Antisemitic Propaganda:</i></b></p> <figure data-orig-width="726" data-orig-height="446" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/ef40a021948f154c0b106784323660aa/tumblr_inline_oii52q367I1u3hfbm_540.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="726" data-orig-height="446"/></figure><p>Many “evil witch” tropes were built on European antisemitic stereotypes, not just in appearance but in the storylines they play out as well. Greediness, stealing children, killing children, hunger for power, etc.  <b>Every time a movie villain design uses stereotyped Jewish features to communicate “evilness” to an audience, they perpetuate the marginalization of the people they are using. </b></p> <p>One big issue I have is that Gothel’s didn’t start out as the antisemitic caricature that made it to screen.  Much of the early concept art has a more dark romanticism feel.  </p> <figure data-orig-width="750" data-orig-height="453" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/6a26a0b8632d40346b1b4541b6829f02/tumblr_inline_oii6kjyfLA1u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="750" data-orig-height="453"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="750" data-orig-height="453" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/ad784bf14cf3600fc783cb3f6b9f0c70/tumblr_inline_oii6kjtoI61u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="750" data-orig-height="453"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="1100" data-orig-height="741" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/8163c91a59863a27fef98dcb16bd8782/tumblr_inline_oii6kk5zKZ1u3hfbm_540.jpg" alt="image" data-orig-width="1100" data-orig-height="741"/></figure><p>They changed the original design. Presumably to make Gothel more “other” from the good characters in the movie. <b> At some point, a decision was made that dark curly hair and a hooked nose wound better convey their villain.</b></p> <p>It really doesn’t matter if any of this was intentional, I’d actually bet that it wasn’t.  However, antisemitic tropes are so engrained in our societies that people like you, even when confronted with a step by step break down of what it is, feel comfortable thinking that there’s nothing wrong with it and mocking those calling it out as if we are overreacting.</p> <p>You seem to have completely ignored the majority of my post.  It is the character design, plus the characterization, plus the story line that mirrors blood libel that makes Gothel an antisemitic character. <b> It’s not just about someone of a certain race or ethnicity being a villain.  It’s about how stereotypes of a certain ethnic group are understood as “villainous” due to villains being repeatedly coded as Jewish over decades of film and tv.</b></p> <p>And contrary to your naive belief, all media is political to some extent. Every time a historically present minority is not included in film (ex: lily-white Harlem in Fantastical Beasts) or when a minority character is whitewashed, or when the “ethnic” features of a minority are used almost universally to portray bad guys, it is a political and social issue.  <b>When you never see yourselves as the people who play the hero or even see your people existing in a portrayal of a place where they should be, it is not benign.</b></p> </blockquote> <p>Reblogging again for these additions.</p> </blockquote> <p>I’m not Jewish, but I can imagine seeing yourself villanized again and again must wear on you so hard (like queer coded villains do on me). The stereotypes are so insidious, I didn’t even realize she was Jewish coded until I saw this post for the first time, and since then I’ve been able to pick up on more anti-semitic media.</p> <p>Stay cognizant! </p> </blockquote> <p>This is a writing blog so fellow writers! Please take a good look at your villains— even if they’re not Jewish, it can be antisemitic. Thanks. - A Jewâ„ąïž</p> </blockquote> <p>I have a feeling this is all baseless, and groundless. If you’re assuming a character has to be a negative Jewish stereotype because you stereotype those features as bein Jewish. The one with the issue might be you</p> </blockquote> <p>Mother Gothel has a similar facial structure as Cruella De Vil. Pointy cheekbones and chin, etc. </p> <figure data-orig-width="1600" data-orig-height="921" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/2ca38ab88da550b0df2c068dd610b59e/tumblr_inline_pc3u94DPjC1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="1600" data-orig-height="921"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="1003" data-orig-height="1458" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/20fba8157c93162a45ad83687045c4f4/tumblr_inline_pc3u9lFuTT1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="1003" data-orig-height="1458"/></figure><p>She isn’t any shade specifically darker than any of the other characters. They deliberately chose pictures where Mother Gothel is either in the darkened tower, or it is night time. </p> <p>Also, they only compared Mother Gothel to other Disney protags rather than other Disney villains or even Disney characters who are older. Disney typically uses very angular features to convey villains. </p> <figure data-orig-width="720" data-orig-height="480" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/a3257bff02583d7625f8fcc6d0450151/tumblr_inline_pc3uhqneNm1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="720" data-orig-height="480"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="1808" data-orig-height="1080" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/eff51a7ac3da026cbd5c35bd2306849c/tumblr_inline_pc3ui75cWO1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="1808" data-orig-height="1080"/></figure><figure class="tmblr-full" data-orig-height="1080" data-orig-width="1424"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/4ca1d9a7d7d1d683fd24d2c7f6246df5/tumblr_inline_pc3yjcMx4N1tx5uef_1280.png" data-orig-height="1080" data-orig-width="1424"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="300" data-orig-height="240" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/d881a63a0254cc8fbf8eaa8492f1fd52/tumblr_inline_pc3uji270c1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="300" data-orig-height="240"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="220" data-orig-height="322"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/2c053cbc17b4281c43e68dcf5d064a1c/tumblr_inline_pc3uuf11sU1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="220" data-orig-height="322"/></figure><p>Cruella has an upwards turned nose like most disney protags. It’s just sharper to go along with her other angular features.</p> <figure data-orig-width="500" data-orig-height="375" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/d000718627c5d7f706927ed24f5fdb53/tumblr_inline_pc3uvwOH951tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="500" data-orig-height="375"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="1440" data-orig-height="1080" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/2c1714d66f95acfb83d0fa651a638290/tumblr_inline_pc3uw9SJcB1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="1440" data-orig-height="1080"/></figure><p>Hell you can even compare her to Maleficent</p> <figure data-orig-width="400" data-orig-height="300" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/f71a5ad89503be687d6983421b7ee8f4/tumblr_inline_pc3uxnYbqh1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="400" data-orig-height="300"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="628" data-orig-height="418" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/194eadb0b5f82c48995786391f23de4d/tumblr_inline_pc3v17KSkb1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="628" data-orig-height="418"/></figure><p>Who you can see has no hooked or curved nose. In fact, her nose is more flat, similar to Jasmine.</p> <p>Also, many characters change from their concept art. Dr. Facilier went from this</p> <figure data-orig-width="371" data-orig-height="480" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/8a288ad68dcba5beb215b58355329452/tumblr_inline_pc3upqCyHv1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="371" data-orig-height="480"/></figure><p>to this </p> <figure data-orig-width="435" data-orig-height="800" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/8f165821d091d813a248966d7f907eaf/tumblr_inline_pc3uqz4ODa1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="435" data-orig-height="800"/></figure><p>The change from her hair being straight to curly has nothing to do with making her more “Jewish coded”. It’s the visual difference between her and Rapunzel, also, if anyone has forgotten
 <i>Rapunzel’s natural hair color is brown, not blonde.</i></p> <figure data-orig-width="504" data-orig-height="460" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/54cf4524541b7c090e850bbe5e8f216d/tumblr_inline_pc3v6dvQEX1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="504" data-orig-height="460"/></figure><p>If they wanted to make a character Jewish coded, then why just stop at curly hair and hooked nose? Many people, of various religions, races, and cultures have hooked noses and curly dark hair. Why not just go the full yard if you wanted to make a Jewish coded character that is anti-Semitic? Why not give her Jewish clothing and make her look ugly, gross, and dirty? </p> <figure data-orig-width="512" data-orig-height="636" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/9e1be5f1a6be51a1d48f412816d5eabd/tumblr_inline_pc3v9nvIuZ1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="512" data-orig-height="636"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="500" data-orig-height="717" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/ab077d76ddf1a292292d6bc02440a081/tumblr_inline_pc3va6j6LP1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="500" data-orig-height="717"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="375" data-orig-height="255" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/d59c6b2ad84f8509e38267470b500ffb/tumblr_inline_pc3vb30xWY1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="375" data-orig-height="255"/></figure><figure data-orig-width="407" data-orig-height="600" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/44e6d379c41c9d3b418ad21fbf60cb23/tumblr_inline_pc3vbmA1ES1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="407" data-orig-height="600"/></figure><p>They deliberately manipulated information and pointed out something and said, “See, Jewish stereotype.” even though you can see from mother Gothel’s profile picture, <i>her nose isn’t even hooked</i>. They’re picking out things that <i>could be</i> Jewish features or stereotypes and then saying that they are. </p> <p>“She’s greedy and evil” and so are pretty much all other Disney Villains. Ya know
 gotta be evil to be a villain. Dr. Faciler, Gaston, The Evil Queen, Maleficent, Jafar, Scar
 need I list more villains? Being evil and greedy =/= being jewish coded because evil and greedy are common traits of villains, <i>even within </i><br/></p> <p>“She has dark curly hair” so does Esmeralda and Moana. <br/></p> <p>“Hooked nose.” her nose isn’t even hooked. It’s flat, similar to Maleficent’s. Anytime someone’s head is bent or leaning forward, naturally, their nose will appear more hooked. that’s just anatomy. That happens to <i>everyone</i>. Hell, you can even see in the images <i>her nose isn’t hooked</i>. <br/></p> <p>If you can’t tell the difference between a Jewish caricature and Mother Gothel, then I think that’s a you problem. Stereotypes are not exclusive to one group. In fact, implying that is <i>even more racist and anti-semitic </i>than the character. </p> <p>Hell, in fact, prior to the 20th century, <i>red curly hair</i> was associated with Jewish people. So by that logic, Merida must be Jewish coded
 but because she is <i>good</i> and looks like a Disney protag, she <i>can’t</i> be Jewish coded because she doesn’t have enough “Jewish stereotypes”. </p> <p>The stereotype of Jewish people being greedy originates from when Jewish people were legally restricted to being usurers
 Which is where the stereotype comes from. However, even in Jewish religion and mythology, greed, as in any other religion, is often portrayed as a negative or bad trait. </p> <p>The irony is that they can only see Jewish stereotypes in <i>villainous characters</i> but can’t see any in the protagonists or heroes.</p> <figure data-orig-width="600" data-orig-height="400" class="tmblr-full"><img src="https://78.media.tumblr.com/5dab9038b1c45aa7d8afd2a14fd57fdd/tumblr_inline_pc3wmuk1ny1tx5uef_1280.png" alt="image" data-orig-width="600" data-orig-height="400"/></figure><p>Esmeralda (from Frollo’s perspective) is associated with sin and temptation
 which is another Jewish stereotype (Beautiful Jewess / Belle Juive) and she has dark, curly hair (another Jewish stereotype). </p> <p>Merida has curly red hair, which was a Jewish stereotype before the 10th century. If we’re going this loosely based on stereotypes, you can even argue that Queen Eleanor is “Jewish-coded” because she is nagging, protective, and motherly. Ya know, the Jewish mother/wife stereotype. </p> <p>So you have two arguably Jewish-coded heroines and protags yet no one can see the Jewish stereotypes in them because they are <i>the good guys</i>. Or because they don’t have <i>certain</i> Jewish stereotypes.</p> <p>The thing is, stereotypes, are not all inherently bad, or rather, not all stereotypes are negative. Not all stereotypes originate from oppressors or people that are anti-semitic, racist, etc. Some stereotypes are often used as stock characters by people of a race or culture. Not every stereotype is exclusive to Jewish people either or even originates with anti-semitism. </p> <p>If you can <i>only</i> see yourself in villains then maybe it’s you rather than the creators or characters. You literally picked the bare minimum and made a mountain out of an ant hill.</p> </blockquote> <p>Maybe it’s me, but isn’t that shape of nose called the ROMAN nose? The propaganda ones seem a lot fatter and bulbous to me.</p> </blockquote> <p><i>&gt; They changed the original design. Presumably to make Gothel more “other” from the good characters in the movie. </i></p><p>Why, yes, the child kidnapper and abuser villain whose entire character motivation is based on <b>being different</b> is designed not to look like regular people, especially her “daughter”. Even her clothes are deliberately anachronistic.</p></blockquote> <p>This entire post has been quite a ride.</p>

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